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+--- Thread: Question in regards to Loyalty... (/showthread.php?tid=339)
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - QuiDormit - 08-02-2010
(08-02-2010, 03:49 AM)Prospero Wrote: Agreed. The whole code-bombing thing was such a childish, sterile gesture. I mean, it's the kind of immature crap you expect from high-school/middle-school kids (sorry to any we have on this crew), not from someone with his experience and vision. It only makes sense if you view it as a regression, a retreat into puerile behavior only justified by the personal emotional satisfaction it provides. Not the sign of a leader.
I have to remember Morpheus as the tutor to Neo and Trinity and the others, not as the nihilistic nutcase he became.
Well, if you look at Morpheus's transgression along the path he walked, it was just one daring and fool-hearty risk after another. While we as the viewers of the trilogy saw him as a visionary and a consummate leader, the upper echelon of Zion's military (not the council, but the other captains and commander) thought he took dangerous risks and put himself, his crew, and Zion at great risk.
Couple that with the fact that the prophecy came true (even though Neo told him that it wouldn't / it couldn't / and that he wasn't supposed to end the war), and you get what Morpheus became. He was so sure of himself before Neo proved to be the one and he continued to be... not cocky, but confident in his beliefs.
So, you've got Neo supposedly dead, the machines won't give up his body, and Morpheus knew that peace wouldn't last.
So he struck first.
I'm not saying that what he did was right, but it is what it is.
As for the codebombing being childish... RP wise, Qui would love to have a chat with you about that.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Rxu - 08-02-2010
My faction and I supported Morpheus and his actions, we pictured him as the visionary leader that could have ended the war by bringing down the machines and their system of control with the help of Neo.
It was very sad to see Neo go the way he did but honorable, as we respect his decision to save humanity and the machines as it was either save both or loose all.
I only hope that Morpheus gains more respect from all of you who criticize his actions as childish in knowing that his intentions are and were to safe humanity and truly "Free our minds"
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Neoteny - 08-02-2010
(08-02-2010, 04:40 AM)QuiDormit Wrote:(08-02-2010, 03:49 AM)Prospero Wrote: Agreed. The whole code-bombing thing was such a childish, sterile gesture. I mean, it's the kind of immature crap you expect from high-school/middle-school kids (sorry to any we have on this crew), not from someone with his experience and vision. It only makes sense if you view it as a regression, a retreat into puerile behavior only justified by the personal emotional satisfaction it provides. Not the sign of a leader.
I have to remember Morpheus as the tutor to Neo and Trinity and the others, not as the nihilistic nutcase he became.
Well, if you look at Morpheus's transgression along the path he walked, it was just one daring and fool-hearty risk after another. While we as the viewers of the trilogy saw him as a visionary and a consummate leader, the upper echelon of Zion's military (not the council, but the other captains and commander) thought he took dangerous risks and put himself, his crew, and Zion at great risk.
Couple that with the fact that the prophecy came true (even though Neo told him that it wouldn't / it couldn't / and that he wasn't supposed to end the war), and you get what Morpheus became. He was so sure of himself before Neo proved to be the one and he continued to be... not cocky, but confident in his beliefs.
So, you've got Neo supposedly dead, the machines won't give up his body, and Morpheus knew that peace wouldn't last.
So he struck first.
I'm not saying that what he did was right, but it is what it is.
As for the codebombing being childish... RP wise, Qui would love to have a chat with you about that.
It's an interesting path from diplomacy to code bombs. Having played a character that did just that, I believe I can say that quite honestly.
Morpheus was beloved of Zion before he started codebombing. Then he was disowned. At that time, EPN didn't exist, so he was only supported unofficially by those who chose to support him. Later on, EPN was very hopeful of discovering the real Morpheus, but it never happened, so we'll never know according to the "official" story. However, there was heavy suggestion that Morpheus was killed, and so whether or not to support his past actions was left as a personal choice.
As far as I can recall the only truly and entirely pro-Morpheus faction on Recursion were the Prophets of the Martyr.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Vesuveus - 08-02-2010
I created a faction based on Morpheus' Daniel Institute of Dream Interpretation. I always believed that he was alive, even after I learned that the Morpheus sim was indeed a program.
My faction, Clan Darkstar, was around when Morpheus was codebombing and we supported him. Not that I personally ever interacted with him in anyway, but that was the stance we took. I'm not sure if any of my old factionmates ever interacted with him.
If Morpheus had come back and code bombed, I would have supported him again though my OOC point of view is much different. I think they wrote him as crazy to kill him off and bring other characters like Niobe and Ghost, and us players, to the forefront. They played the post traumatic stress and obsession to retrieve the One rather poorly in my opinion. I liked those elements into Morpheus' psyche, but killing Morpheus was stupid. Much worse than killing Neo.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - QuiDormit - 08-02-2010
(08-02-2010, 05:10 PM)Vesuveus Wrote: I liked those elements into Morpheus' psyche, but killing Morpheus was stupid. Much worse than killing Neo.
Unfortunately, I wasn't there, but I would have been mad. I mean, I'm mad now, but I think that if they were struggling with his character, they could have done a lot of things different to keep him out of the forefront without killing him... then resurrecting him as a sim that's so much like him the Oracle even said that "it's the same thing." WTF?
As for killing Neo, there was no other way for it to go down. I mean, I don't know that Neo's dead, but the whole self-sacrifice thing is what I mean. The one thing that didn't jive with me was that Neo sacrificed himself so that there would be peace. Which didn't last long. So was it all in vain?
Maybe he's alive in some form or another. It would certainly be more comforting.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - HD_Morpheus - 08-02-2010
i think that i should change my name when playing, to not affect lore in fact.
i will think about it when time comes.
I dont know if lorewise would be good to revive morpheus in some way, but i would want to see some Neo reminiscences, like his conscious data put into another bluepill or so.
Maybe he would be not "awake" so some acts awake him... but i dont know, not a story writer myself.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - QuiDormit - 08-02-2010
(08-02-2010, 05:52 PM)Morpheus Wrote: i think that i should change my name when playing, to not affect lore in fact.
i will think about it when time comes.
I dont know if lorewise would be good to revive morpheus in some way, but i would want to see some Neo reminiscences, like his conscious data put into another bluepill or so.
Maybe he would be not "awake" so some acts awake him... but i dont know, not a story writer myself.
I'm not sure how much of the story you're aware of, but there is a Morpheus simulacrum that goes around and does strange things like deal with the machines and the merovingian (all to further whatever the hell goal it is he has in mind, we didn't get to find out), so seeing Morpheus wouldn't be weird.
I also don't believe that he's dead. (at least not in character. OOC, I guess I don't know either way.)
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - HD_Morpheus - 08-02-2010
oh yeah, the so called mopheus with black pants. just read a bit, im learning, but slowly
but my last line was about neo.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Wingless - 08-02-2010
(08-02-2010, 05:52 PM)Morpheus Wrote: ... but i would want to see some Neo reminiscences, like his conscious data put into another bluepill or so.
Maybe he would be not "awake" so some acts awake him... but i dont know, not a story writer myself.
Might be a little off topic, but it's hinted at (or at least theorized by myself and a few others i talked to >.>) that they may have done just that via a bluepill named Sarah Edmontons. Sadly the only mention I could find of her atm was a few shots during a chapter 8 LE where Shimada briefly mentioned her. Found here: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300015637
I remember going on a revenge spree against the Merovingian after the Assassin business was done. But looking back now, I can't agree with the actions Morpheus took to get Neo's body back. In the end, Zion abandoned him in favor of the truce (which didn't last THAT long anyway, hrm) and he went on his own with an unofficial (storyline-wise, they never recieved names like the Cypherites or E Pluribus Neo) faction of followers.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Vesuveus - 08-02-2010
I think the Sarah Edmontons thing was brought up by a LET member whowas let go. So it was one of the many (maybe hundreds) on loose ends with the storyline.
A more prominent example of a loose end due to the storyline falling through the "Funnel" was when rarebit's New Approach discarded EPN and Cyph orgs. Things just had to be laid by the wayside.
So the Sarah Edmontons thing was suggested but I don't think it was outlined by the Brothers or Chadwick, which would make them canon in my opinion. (I know and respect everyone else's opinion of what and what is not cannon. This is just my own.)
Another note: I think that Sarah Edmontons (Which is an anagram for Thomas Anderson) was derived by a sound bit where Morpheus says "They can erase your memory. He can still be jacked in an not know who he is. He could be him, or him, or her."