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+--- Thread: Question in regards to Loyalty... (/showthread.php?tid=339)
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Othinn - 22-02-2010
(19-02-2010, 11:30 PM)Barloke Wrote: I always believed that the only reason the Machines kept the human race alive was some obscure root program. In a way it would be the human equivelant of a sub-concious. I mean take into account the animatrix. Time and time again Machine-kind made attempts to pacify the situation created by B1-66ER (who probably is the first one to disobey his inherit programming). Even after Machines were first exiled from mankind they attempted to make amends but were rebuked in the Untied Nations and eventually recieved embargos, despite their success on the open market. Then war starts and Machines act as one would expect, which is to fight logically without emotion taking more and more land. Now here's the part that makes me think the Machines were actualy trying to help humans.
Sure we can say the Machines were brutal in warfare but we can also ay they were pushed into it. I mean they had their number hunted, perscuted, and destroyed long before any official Declaration of War was ever made. The fact that the humans in a last ditch attempt to win the war blackened the skies was part of the reason Machines decided to use them for energy. I do believe that the Machines also saw this as the only way to save humanity from itself. If they didn't care they could have reduced every human to an unconcious state and used their energy, hell use a cow instead!
So when I compare what the Machines did and what Morpheus attempted to do, I see the machines as the lesser of two evils. Of course my character wouldn't agree as either party would be more than happy to see him dead! heheheh!
This is pretty much the route that MxO was going to go, according to Rarebit's notes. The decision to use humans as a power source was influenced by the fact that the Machines still have their job as humanity's caretakers in their basic programming.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - QuiDormit - 22-02-2010
(22-02-2010, 12:49 AM)Othinn Wrote: The decision to use humans as a power source was influenced by the fact that the Machines still have their job as humanity's caretakers in their basic programming.
That's exactly what I think.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Neoteny - 22-02-2010
I absolutely hate the fact that Rarebit/Chadders looked at and addressed that question of "how does it work/where does the power come from?" and then gave (as a fact) that the machines were gathering a minimal amount of power from the pods (something like 1%? I forget exactly).
This destroyed a lot of Matrix cannon to simply prepare way for the Oligarch storyline (which, in my opinion, was an abortion at best). It begs the question of why there are wars in the Real between humans and machines if the machines are caretakers. It begs the question of why the machines antagonize humans who escape the matrix. Furthermore, it begs the question of why there is a damn matrix to begin with, since (if I remember correctly) the movies tell us that the mental stimulation is to ramp up the power. It would be much more cost-effective to grow humans and keep them in persistent vegetative states without running a massive computer mind simulation if ramping up power output is not object.
Sure, the Architect stated "there are measures we are prepared to accept," but that doesn't mean "lawl, we don't need u noobs. GTFO." That was meant to mean "We don't want our power supply to die out, but if that happens, we can scrape and go on low-power mode until we grow enough of you to build another one."
It also made the redpill/bluepill question irrelevant, since bluepills were unnecessary, there is no real reason for the machines to require bluepill matrix inhabitants. Anyone would then be justified in offering the redpill to anyone, and that whole Machine anger over controlling extraction numbers - you know, the one that caused them to invent Cypherites and all that funky jazz? Yeah, again, completely unnecessary.
Just had to put that out there. As far as my character went, I kind of disregarded the whole report from the General, and when questioned said, "I don't believe that's true. How can we trust what information he has?" Made it easier to justify code bombs, and made them seem to have an actual impact.
On top of that, the justification was that bluepills are minds wasted, and since they have no real connection to the Real, they are worthless. If one does not survive a codebomb, one never could have been freed, therefore, one was worthless. If one survives a codebomb, they are freed, and the job is well done, and expedited.
Ah, the convoluted logic of a madman. I miss that RP.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - Rxu - 22-02-2010
Excellent explanation Neoteny. The 3 movies plus the animatrix provided a roller coaster of emotions as far as who is at fault, or who is the good/bad guy.
But in the end it was all very clear...depending on your interpretation of what happened of course.
RE: Question in regards to Loyalty... - QuiDormit - 22-02-2010
(22-02-2010, 06:27 PM)Rxu Wrote: But in the end it was all very clear...depending on your interpretation of what happened of course.
haha -- I literally burst out laughing when I read that.