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RE: Matrix Discussion - Cycles - 08-11-2010
(08-11-2010, 03:26 PM)Metalogic Wrote:(08-11-2010, 03:21 PM)QuiDormit Wrote: Right, you said what I was thinking far more succinctly.
Also, I was thinking that the closest thing that the machines have to a wild-card thinker is the Oracle.
Hence her feelings of closeness with humans.
I really wish the MxO people delved into The Oracle alittle bit better. My character Metalogic may have hated her, but as a person I always found her fascinating. I mean this is a program that's somehow caught between the Machine world and the Exile world. She's not exactly a machine program, but she's not an exile either. There's something about her programming that allows her to do more than just facilitate the cycle of The One.
We have seen Exiles evolve, they go from machine programs to exiles, being able to express human emotions and desires. I believe that since The Oracle does reside in The Matrix instead of the Source, that some of that evolution has rubbed off on her over time. So she is able to straddle that line.
They really should've done more with The Oracle and Seraph.
The Architect was bluffing. Without sunlight or battery, no machines.
I remember a line that said:
"She is most defenitely the mother of the matrix."
So Oracle is the mother of the matrix.
Meaning that the Architect build the house. ( The Matrix ) And the oracle made the house alive.
She must have studied the humans in such a way so that they can accept The Matrix. She put the ingredients what the machines needed, the ingredients the oracle so carefully studied from human behavior...The missing link inside the matrix so humans can now finally accept there new prison without hesitation (like before in the alpha and beta versions from the matrix)
And while the humans accept there new prison, the machines can now finally use the data from the brain so they can use that to further advanced there machine technology, so that they can truly be the new intelligents that walk the earth after the dinosaur and the humans. Because after all.. The humans had that missing link to make that possible.
After the completion to find the missing link by the Oracle: and the ingredients that the humans needed to accept there new prison called The Matrix: Oracle provided that to the Architect and he could now finally complete the final version from The Matrix after all the alpha's and beta's :
Version 1 from the matrix was born.
The machines thought it was a success only one problem:
The first Anomoly was born inside the matrix.
Later become known as The One.
That anomoly problem was so big for the machines : That it destroyed Version 1 from The Matrix, also: The first rebellion group was born. The One had freed a couple humans to form the rebellion.
Since then 5 more version was created from the matrix to find away to kill Zion and the Anomoly )
And that is what the Oracle basicly was. To find out what was missing to make the matrix work.
BUT...
Then she discovered something inside human nature after she delivered the missing link to the machines that will make the matrix work as a human prisson, and that discovery was so powerfull that she decided to rebel against the Machines and help the Human's.
The rest you know.
The discovery was something so important to the oracle, because it probably had something to do also with the survival of the machines for there own future. Something the machines could not ever have created on its own to survive no matter how much you process from the humans to further advance machine techology. And because of this discovery the whole reason why the machines where doing what they where doing against the humans was completely foolish and stupid because it will mean the end of the machines no matter what the outcome is.
Also the reason why the anomoly was being born over and over again in every version. It is a way of Nature... Telling something to the machines, only they did not listen. Reason why there versions of the matrix was being destroyed over and over again aswel, because of this anomoly.
I think the discovery had something to do with Love&Hope, something machines could not have on its own. But it was vital for survival of a race. That is what she discovered and why she start rebelling against the machines. In the end it is all about survival in the end. Any means necessary.
But in the end my opinion: The humans where also the mistake here by enslaving machines and tread them like they where nothing. ( The Animatrix) There was a anomoly born inside the machines aswel in that time frame ( the machine budler ). That anomoly freed the Machines from the humans and Zero one city was born. The place machines lived free to evolve. Only humans didnt want that to happen because that would mean back to the stone ages and they had to work for everything again by themself. So the first change they would see they would grab it to take the now freed machines down. That happend when the Machines tried aswel to provide technology by them self for the global market economy from that time. And the technology was so good that it took down the human technology and there by the dollar aswel. And that unleast the first war, Humans started it. That war brought the apocolypse, fall and captured from the humans.
But now tables turned: The machines where at mistake by enslaving humans and tread them like batery's / nothing, (after they forced human race to sign peace / surrender papers after the first war) So now with these papers signed the humans where now threated like batteries to process machine technology. So now there was a anomoly born inside the matrix for the humans. That destroyed each version from the matrix.
So in the end Nature took its course by teaching humans and machines something:
That they need each other for survival because that is the way Nature wants to go so that mother planet can evolve and show its true colors.
So in the end Nature... Was the true anomoly that said : If i dont like what i see --> I will change it so watch what you are doing on my surface!
And in reallife this is very true aswel. So this seems like to most logical answer to me.
But hey just my opinion.
P.s. I believe that this very fact was the reason why i didnt choose for the Zion or Machine faction back in MxO days.. But the Merovingian faction. Middle ground. Because i wanted to see if there was a way in the storylines from the Merovingian or by discovering it by myself: for a way that Machines and Zion to work togeter like it was ment to be by nature. the last Neo in version 6 from The Matrix was the first one that truly discovered the true meaning why al this was happening. And why in the end he beat Smith just by 'joining'him. Literaly saying that humans need machines and they need us. And because of this peace was created. But instead of peace, after Neo died there was a Truce. Meaning Zion and Machines still didnt get it. So lets see what the Merovingian faction could do about this.lol.
(..yeah d#ng the story from The Matrix was truthfully great!)
Anyway:
Power source Zion: Humans used machines to generate power. ( Watch the scene with Neo and one of the members of the council when they walk late at night and that council member ask Neo to join him in the machine room) Ships flown on giant accu's i believe. These accu's where refilled add the base.
But also there the point was allready made that humans need machines and machines needed humans for survival, only both races interpreted that the wrong way. Thats why nature corrected this flaw by creating anomoly's. 1 for the machines, in the era humans enslaved the machines. And 1 for the humans in the era where machines enslaved humans. To break down there systems to start over.
Powersource Machines: Humans, they used the body and the process of the human brain to generate electricity and progress there machine technology really fast that way. Thats why humans where the ultimate battery for machines. since machines could no longer depend on sun energy since we had manage to block the sun away forever.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Vesuveus - 09-11-2010
I thought the level of survival the Architect mentioned was something like hibernating most of the machines, except for the intuitive ones. Without humanity, all those defense machines can shut down and be used as batteries to power the machines that are coming up with the next power source, like maybe Dues Ex Machina.
No humans, no Matrix. This sucks for the exiles. Do they drown in the shutdown? Maybe the Merovingian should have been a little more helpful to Neo reaching the Source and rebooting the cycle.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Villemar - 09-11-2010
One of the most interesting parts of the MxO storyline for me, as a Merovingian, was in Chapter 8, when Zion and the Machines resumed hostilities. this freed the Merovingian to try and delve deeper into these very same power/energy questions. A conclusion that things weren't as they seem however was vetoed by the W Bros. when Rare floated this idea by them, which I found also very interesting, since they presumably weren't very engaged in MxO by 2007.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Metalogic - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 08:52 AM)Villemar Wrote: One of the most interesting parts of the MxO storyline for me, as a Merovingian, was in Chapter 8, when Zion and the Machines resumed hostilities. this freed the Merovingian to try and delve deeper into these very same power/energy questions. A conclusion that things weren't as they seem however was vetoed by the W Bros. when Rare floated this idea by them, which I found also very interesting, since they presumably weren't very engaged in MxO by 2007.
Yea, I'm surprised The W Bros. vetoed the ideas, I thought by the time the war broke out again, everyone involved in The Matrix Trilogy has washed their hands of it.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Phrack - 09-11-2010
You're welcome to think what you want, but I don't believe that Rarebit had any interaction with the Wachowski's, in any regard. It's too easy to pass the blame onto an invisible entity that nobody else can contact for verification. Then again, it's no secret how I feel in regards to Rarebit, either.
These days, I don't have a lot of respect left for the Washowski's either, after they abandoned this franchise and its fans.
RE: Matrix Discussion - QuiDormit - 09-11-2010
I'm inclined to think that maybe he tried to contact them or "float an idea by them," and got shut out entirely.
Moreso, "what? who? MxO? Sure, the WBros will get back to you at some point, I'll just pass that right along." And that was the last time anyone ever heard from Rarebit. Ever.
No, wait, I mean, that was the only attempt ever made.
Even THAT is super thin. In reality, Phrack's probably right.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Metalogic - 09-11-2010
Yea, I was disappointed that the "machines real power source" arc of The Merovingian org. never got played out. I thought it was really interesting.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Sixxth - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 01:45 PM)Phrack Wrote: You're welcome to think what you want, but I don't believe that Rarebit had any interaction with the Wachowski's, in any regard. It's too easy to pass the blame onto an invisible entity that nobody else can contact for verification. Then again, it's no secret how I feel in regards to Rarebit, either.
These days, I don't have a lot of respect left for the Washowski's either, after they abandoned this franchise and its fans.
Actually, he answered this question in his forums. His quote is "The only proposed story point of mine that the brothers shot down was the Machines not actually using humans for power; I think they viewed that physical symbiosis as sort of the life blood of the whole Matrix concept."
That can be found here http://smbhax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1840#p1840
I dont think he has any real reason to lie about it? From what he says, it seems that he never really interacted with The W bros, but instead would bring ideas to Chadwick (early years) or Walrus (later years) for approval. See here http://smbhax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1837#p1837
If you surf around his forums, hes talked a lot about his time with MxO and interaction with Chadwick, Meyers etc.
RE: Matrix Discussion - Metalogic - 09-11-2010
(09-11-2010, 03:29 PM)Sixxth Wrote:(09-11-2010, 01:45 PM)Phrack Wrote: You're welcome to think what you want, but I don't believe that Rarebit had any interaction with the Wachowski's, in any regard. It's too easy to pass the blame onto an invisible entity that nobody else can contact for verification. Then again, it's no secret how I feel in regards to Rarebit, either.
These days, I don't have a lot of respect left for the Washowski's either, after they abandoned this franchise and its fans.
Actually, he answered this question in his forums. His quote is "The only proposed story point of mine that the brothers shot down was the Machines not actually using humans for power; I think they viewed that physical symbiosis as sort of the life blood of the whole Matrix concept."
That can be found here http://smbhax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1840#p1840
I dont think he has any real reason to lie about it? From what he says, it seems that he never really interacted with The W bros, but instead would bring ideas to Chadwick (early years) or Walrus (later years) for approval. See here http://smbhax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1837#p1837
If you surf around his forums, hes talked a lot about his time with MxO and interaction with Chadwick, Meyers etc.
Yea I've read about that on his forum, and I actually heard someone approached him about helping out with the EMU, but he couldn't due to legal reasons. Which sucks, because he'd probably be the most willing since he isn't a programmer anymore. But I understand not wanting to go to court against WB or SOE.
RE: Matrix Discussion - QuiDormit - 09-11-2010
I can't fathom why people are surprised that those who used to work for the game can not, will not, and most importantly do not want to touch the Emu.
It's like being asked to help some guy bone your ex-girlfriend.
How does that even make sense?