Agent smiths differ from the other Agents

[QuiDormit]

I still don't think the Oracle picked Neo.

The Architect: "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix."

He doesn't say, "Your abilities," but "Your life," which to me encompasses his life as a whole.


As for how the one is chosen, I think it's intentional. There's a gap in time between when the last "One" died and when Neo emerged. They choose who carries the Prime Program.

The Architect: "The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program."

The code he carries would almost certainly have to be decided by the Machines. The Architect wouldn't leave something like that up to blind chance, it's too risky. Also, The Architect is well aware of Neo. In the first Matrix, when they show Neo being interrogated by smith, they show Neo on many TV screens. Screens, which coincidentally look exactly like the Architect's setup of TV's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D7cPH7DHgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULKKiJp6NY

Also, the Architect shows Neo scenes from his own life when he says the first line I quoted above, so they know who he is. Once the anomaly starts to build up, Neo's programming is activated. It's a culmination of Neo awakening to realize he has the power, and a specific time frame when the amount of people rejecting the Matrix has... fueled his powers, so to speak.

I don't really count MxO as canon, and so I didn't really consider the Trinity program (partially because I don't know much about it). Even so, the Oracle would know who Neo is because she's got the sight. Besides that, who ran the Trinity program?

Do you have any info on the Trinity Program? I don't know enough about it.

[Xtank]

every redpill...has an agent

[QuiDormit]

Highly recommended (and ridiculously long) reading regarding Reloaded and Revolutions based on a lot of the things we were talking about, albeit with the spiritual connection that we haven't really delved into:

http://www.wylfing.net/essays/matrix_reloaded.html

http://www.wylfing.net/essays/matrix_revolutions.html


(This also explains a lot about Smith and how Smith is essentially Neo and Neo is fighting himself... Lots to read)

[spazztastics]

That was a lot of interesting texts to read through

To me it seem like Smith hate the Matrix and the machines just as much as he hates the humans. The Architect and The Oracle should have known in the beginning that an Agent with human personality would be extremely dangerous and powerful and could not be controlled. As soon as he doesn't have to follow the 'Agent Program' of the Matrix he just says; "F*** all of you! Now, I'm my own and if you get in my way you better be prepared to recieve facepalms!"

(09-02-2010, 09:32 PM)QuiDormit Wrote: If it wasn't for Smith, Neo wouldn't have had jack shit to barter with the Deus Ex Machina, and so Smith was created (or allowed to go as far as he did, depends on your point of view) to be Neo's opposite and equal simultaneously.

This is just what sounds so extremely dangerous to me. It seemed that no one could predict how powerful Smith would become and if Smith wouldn't have taken on Neo head-on and instead worked in the shadows, waiting for Morpheus to show his snout chances is Smith probably would have succeded.
If we are to believe everything about the 'trinity program' and so on, Oracle really fu**** up letting Smith not only be aware of the cycles but also let him break free from the rules of the 'agent program'. It's never really the machines that is the threat, the threat is always Smith.

In the first movie Smith seem to be interested in helping the machines get into Zion, but when Neo alters his code, Smith seem to no longer be interested in helping any of the factions.
I thought that the architect could see everything that happened inside the Matrix so shouldn't he see what Smith was up to already in the first movie and maybe in the second send other agents after Smith to stop him before it was too late?

What I think; The Matrix, The Oracle and The Architect really fucked up. They thought they had everything under control and played their cards right but failed to realize how powerful Smith would become and would Smith have just waited a little longer to take on Neo (and of course backstab him instead of giving him the chance to prepare for a fight with a speech all the time) Smith would have got the codes from Morpheus, got into zion, destroy everything and rewrite the whole Matrix just as he wants it; with humans and machines as his slaves working, while he sits on his enormous throne in his enormous palace.

Somehow Smith reminds me of Ben Affleck and Matt Daemon in Dogma who also goes on a crusade because they are angry on the humans having a choice which they as angels do not.

[cloudwolf]

(10-02-2010, 12:59 AM)QuiDormit Wrote: I don't really count MxO as canon, and so I didn't really consider the Trinity program (partially because I don't know much about it). Even so, the Oracle would know who Neo is because she's got the sight. Besides that, who ran the Trinity program?

Do you have any info on the Trinity Program? I don't know enough about it.

This is the real issue. As much as we like to think big franchises like these are all coherent, they're not. M1 wasn't made with the specifics of M2 and 3 in mind, let alone the comics/animatrix/mxo. These are always things being built on top. Things get a little... sketchier the further from the source they become. What we're doing is taking all the gaps and contradiction and trying to make sense of it. Make theories. Which is fun, but we need to remember there's no magical "right answer" hidden away in some Matrix Bible because really, no-one who made these things thought about what would come after.

As for The Trinity Program, it was basically a plot device to simultaniously explain Neo and Trinity's little "miracles" (i.e. 'we kiss and magically revive eachother' and 'I can fry sentinals in the real and see golden real life code even with melted eyes') as well as justify the motivations of the Oligarch's entering The Matrix.

The Trinity Program (aka The Biological Interface Program) was a centuries long research project into creating human beings with DNA which can be perfectly translated and mapped into Machine code. This would allow the Machines to directly control human bodies, either as spies or who knows what else. This was a solution to the inperfect "overwrite" system which was fundementally flawed (Seraph was able to detect and remove the control programs, returning the hosts to their previous mindset). There was also suggestions it was more to do with Machine curiousity with their creators, which has always kind of been their ultimate motivation (even if they don't see it that way).

Either way, it was what it was. Now, the Oligarch interests comes from the fact they live their existance out in artificial hosts, humanoid androids. When Carlyn heard about The Trinity Project (watching Neo confront Deus Ex Machina) he saw the potential; the ability to interface his now Machine based mind (each Oligarch's mind is housed in a central database within their strongholds then distributed into hosts) with a real human body. Living for centuries without being able to really "feel" anything can be a bitch.

So yeah, Halborn gets wind, enters The Matrix, follows the footsteps of The One, demands the program from the Machines, etc etc Chapter 9+.

It is however worth noting that Rarebit hadn't finalised a lot of the details of the program and had started to consider making The Trinity Program entirely code based and nothing to do with genetic modification. So it's entirely possible The Trinity Program is what was in that cookie.

[QuiDormit]

(10-02-2010, 11:14 AM)cloudwolf Wrote: This is the real issue. As much as we like to think big franchises like these are all coherent, they're not. M1 wasn't made with the specifics of M2 and 3 in mind, let alone the comics/animatrix/mxo. These are always things being built on top. Things get a little... sketchier the further from the source they become. What we're doing is taking all the gaps and contradiction and trying to make sense of it. Make theories. Which is fun, but we need to remember there's no magical "right answer" hidden away in some Matrix Bible because really, no-one who made these things thought about what would come after.

And also, sometimes it's hard to step back and realize that what makes sense in our real world isn't necessarily true or logical in the made-up universe of the Matrix. Sometimes, things just kind of happen and there's no need to explain it, you just take it as it is presented to you.

AKA sometimes it's really hard not to overanalyze tings in relation to the Matrix and the universe it's set in.

[Sixxth]

(10-02-2010, 11:14 AM)cloudwolf Wrote: This is the real issue. As much as we like to think big franchises like these are all coherent, they're not. M1 wasn't made with the specifics of M2 and 3 in mind, let alone the comics/animatrix/mxo.

So, on the Blu-ray DVD, there is a long feature movie about the making of the trilogy where its mentioned several times that they initially pitched all 3 movies to Warner Bros....which would imply that they knew the whole story from the beginning........no mention of the animatrix. Or MxO.


Or not, maybe that was just backpedaling....

Incidently, if you haven't seen the feature, the W bros talk about the matrix movies quite a bit, which was the only time Ive ever seen an interview with them about the movies (or anything else really)

[cloudwolf]

There's also the original script for M2 that is completely different than the M2 we know of.

At least the PotC makers had the balls to say they had to make 2 and 3 look like they were always meant to be woven into 1.

Of course the Bros wanted sequels. Did they write up the specifics for them before making number 1 so that if they ever were made it'd all be coherent? I somehow doubt it.