The Matrix vs The Matrix Sequels

[Sixxth]

(30-10-2013, 01:28 PM)bitbomb Wrote: The fucking bowling pins sound. I 'ughed' out loud in the theater. Oh and yes, that's my biggest complaint of all, the final Neo vs Smith, they should have had Matrix 3 end with Neo walking through the rows of smiths, and the fourth movie would open with the first punch and they'd fly around and punch and kick and smash through buildings and beat each other up and make power moves and fight it out for a whole movie. That fight was excruciatingly boring after 4 minuites, they should have made an entire movie just about that. I always had the feeling that 2 and 3 is when that fat fuck Joel Silver really had his pull here. It has tons of his fat fuck trademarks, like shit he added into Die Hard for no reason, and bunches of other dumb movies. Yes the Joel Silver who, after The Matrix revolutionized his career went on to make the masterpiece we know as Swordfish.

LET THE HATE FLOW THROUGH YOU




hahaah I hear ya with the bowling pins and domino sounds. Why!?

Honestly, Im more bothered by:
"the image translator works FOR the construct..."

[NEM0]

Omg I never really paid much mind to the bowling pin sound, but now that somebody mentioned it, its completely ridiculous. And I get that The Matrix portion of the films is what most of the audience wants, but itd be hard to complete the story without some real world stuff. Thats why i never minded it much

[Maligner]

I had trouble with some of the original movie concept. If I understood it right, the red pills jack in and move about the matrix for their own purposes. It's suggested early that if a red pill comes across an agent, they are very hard to escape. This is further inferred by the agents warping to blue pills and becoming the agent again.

On the other hand, there are many references found by Neo of encounters between Morpheus and "authorities" but Morpheus escapes.

What I never understood was how the agents see red pills through the blue pills. Surely, once a red pill's face is known, then agents, or some other security construct, can instantly see these red pills through any blue pill. Further, do agents not always get involved? Or is Morpheus so good that he can get away from agents regularly?

Once Neo is in play, the agents show up way too much. Sure, there's a traitor that explains some of that. Even after the traitor is defeated, the agents are omni-present. This suggests that jacking in was never really feasible in the first place.

I'm sure it's just me, but I do think that the first movie could've been stretched to a second movie or just a longer first movie with a little more background.

Without my niggling thoughts, it is very good. I just have to accept everything as it is and I enjoy it very much.

I never tried to make a ton of sense of the other two because the first didn't seem to mesh with the concept; I thought it was clear Neo was "The One" and undefeatable. I was never sure why Smith happened except that to have more movies you had to check Neo's power as left by the first movie. This disappointed me intellectually.

[Sixxth]

Because of the way the agents are described early in the first movie, how easy it is to escape them is open to interpretation.

Trinity escapes agents. Also, Cypher tells Neo if he sees an agent to run his ass off, which suggests to me that running has worked in the past. And as you note, its indicated that Morpheus has escaped them. Its only "standing your ground" and defeating them thats been impossible up to that point.

Interestingly, I always assumed that until a Redpill had somehow revealed his presence (using a cell phone seems to reveal them), that they were "invisible" to the machines. I also assumed that the machines weren't constantly monitoring what is seen through every bluepill's eyes. So until a redpill revealed himself somehow to the machines , they could move around unseen.

Obviously, these things are all really just things Id inferred. Its not spelled out, and there are some things that fly against the logic of the story.
One of the things that seems illogical to me is....once the machines knew that Neo was Thomas Anderson, why even go to Metacortex and chase him? After all, he was still part of the system. Just have an agent take him over and deliver him wherever they wanted lol.
Im sure some of you can think of good reasons why they didnt do that.....

In the end , my personal feeling is the movie is allegory for mans struggle to use/control technology - harness the good parts without losing their humanity to the bad parts. Didnt this movie come out as the internet and common home computer use was starting to really take off?
The Matrix maybe is a cautionary tale from that standpoint.....?

[NEM0]

I always kind of got the feeling that Agents would only notice a redpill when a bluepill saw an event that surprised them, and made them somewhat aware of the false nature of The Matrix. They see something they know to not be possible, so they start to become aware that the world around them has problems, and doesn't seem real. For example, the hobo in the train station wasn't taken over by Smith immediately, it was only until he saw Morpheus jack out. In that sense, the Machines could monitor the bluepills for surprise or a partial awakening. You could argue that the story required Morpheus and Trinity to jack out before Smith arrived, setting up Smith's fight with Neo, but I'd like to believe otherwise lol.

As far as why did Agents not just take over Neo, I think after you begin to awaken, you're somewhat disconnected from the system. After you begin to realize there is something wrong with The Matrix, they lose a certain level of control. That's why they are forced to chase down potential redpills instead of just inhabiting them.

[Xenith]

(31-10-2013, 06:58 PM)NEM0 Wrote: As far as why did Agents not just take over Neo, I think after you begin to awaken, you're somewhat disconnected from the system. After you begin to realize there is something wrong with The Matrix, they lose a certain level of control. That's why they are forced to chase down potential redpills instead of just inhabiting them.

Then wouldn't Smith have not been able to take over Baine? Then again, Smith was in a whole diff league compared to other agents at that point.

[NEM0]

Yeah I think what Smith did to Bain, that whole silvery thing (always connected it with what happened to Neo shortly after he took the redpill with the mirror, not sure what the meaning is there but just a thought), was different than an Agent just inhabiting a persons body. Especially since Bain was no longer part of the system. I think what Smith did was more like a violent takeover/overwrite and then proceeded to jack out, effectively writing his own consciousness into Bain's body. Whereas the Agents only temporarily inhabit a bluepill, leaving their consciousnesses alone so that they can leave that host, and have the bluepill still be intact like nothing ever happened.

[rajkosto]

Smith was a virus and thus could do whatever he wants, like overwrite other agents and the Oracle and redpills like Bane.
Elementary, why did you even ask that question.
And the agents didnt posses Neo because they wanted him to lead them to Morpheus, duh.

[NEM0]

And at the time, they didn't know anything about Neo's potential. The only information they had was that Neo was the next bluepill Morpheus was trying to free. They had no idea how significant he was in the grand scheme of things. If they knew Neo was The One but wasn't capable of using the full extent of his powers, they'd definetly just inhabit Neo's body (if possible, again he may have been too aware of the dream-like state of things to be taken over) and suicide lol movie over, credits

[bitbomb]

Agent Troll: Take over body, suicide, leave.